Kiddushin 65 - October 17, 2 Cheshvan

Today's daf is sponsored by Hadar Hecht in loving memory of Michal Rut bat Itamar Yitzhak & Ada Etel and Tova bat Arye Yitzhak & Sara. We are continuing to learn for the safety of our soldiers, residents of the South and the North, and the whole country, the safe return of the captives, in memory of those who have fallen and for a refua shleima to all those injured.  A man who says he betrothed his older daughter - if he has two sets of wives and daughters from both wives, there is a debate whether or not all of them except the youngest are considered betrothed out of doubt or only the oldest of the older group of sisters. Abaye clarifies that the debate would not apply in a case of three daughters all from the same mother - in that case, it would be clear that "older" would only include the oldest and not the middle daughter. Two difficulties are raised against Abaye's opinion, but they are resolved.  The Mishna brings four cases - two where either the man or the woman admits to being betrothed but the other does not, and two more where they each disagree about who was the betrothed a woman or her daughter. Why was each case in the Mishna necessary? Rav and Shmuel disagree about whether we ask him to give the woman a get or force him to. Regarding which case is this debate? In the end, they explain that there is no debate between them - when Rav said we force, he meant that if the man gives the get on his own initiative, we can force him to pay her the ketuba money. Rav Nachman quoted a ruling of Shmuel that if there is only one witness to a betrothal, even if both the man and woman admit to the betrothal, they are not considered betrothed. This opinion is questioned by our Mishna and a Mishna in Gittin 81, but both difficulties are resolved. Rav and perhaps Rebbi both held this way as well. Another braita is brought to raise a difficulty against this opinion but is resolved. Rav Papa rules against Rav Kahana (who held like the others) and holds that even with one witness, one needs to be concerned that the betrothal was effective. Rav Ashi asks Rav Kahana why the principle of "when the plaintiff admits something (here, both the husband and wife admitted to the betrothal), it is as if there were one hundred witnesses" which applies in monetary law doesn't apply here as well. Rav Kahana answers that in this case, their confession limits others as well (relatives of the other are now forbidden to marry them) and therefore their admission is not accepted. Confessions are only accepted when they do not negatively affect others.