084 - The Messy Truth of Designing and Building a Successful Analytics SAAS Product featuring Jonathan Kay (CEO, Apptopia)

Building a SAAS business that focuses on building a research tool, more than building a data product, is how Jonathan Kay, CEO and Co-Founder of Apptopia frames his company’s work. Jonathan and I worked together when Apptopia pivoted from its prior business into a mobile intelligence platform for brands. Part of the reason I wanted to have Jonathan talk to you all is because I knew that he would strip away all the easy-to-see shine and varnish from their success and get really candid about what worked…and what hasn’t…during their journey to turn a data product into a successful SAAS business. So get ready: Jonathan is going to reveal the very curvy line that Apptopia has taken to get where they are today.    In this episode, Jonathan also describes one of the core product design frameworks that Apptopia is currently using to help deliver actionable insights to their customers. For Jonathan, Apptopia’s research-centric approach changes the ways in which their customers can interact with data and is helping eliminate the lull between “the why” and “the actioning” with data.   Here are some of the key parts of  the interview: An introduction to Apptopia and how they serve brands in the world of mobile app data (00:36) The current UX gaps that Apptopia is working to fill (03:32) How Apptopia balances flexibility with ease-of-use  (06:22) How Apptopia establishes the boundaries of its product when it’s just one part of a user’s overall workflow (10:06) The challenge of “low use, low trust” and getting “non-data” people to act (13:45) Developing strong conclusions and opinions and presenting them to customers (18:10) How Apptopia’s product design process has evolved when working with data, particularly at the UI level (21:30) The relationship between Apptopia’s buyer, versus the users of the product and how they balance the two (24:45) Jonathan’s advice for hiring good data product design and management staff (29:45) How data fits into Jonathan’s own decision making as CEO of Apptopia (33:21) Jonathan’s advice for emerging data product leaders (36:30) Quotes from Today’s Episode   “I want to just give you some props on the work that you guys have done and seeing where it's gone from when we worked together. The word grit, I think, is the word that I most associate with you and Eli [former CEO, co-founder] from those times. It felt very genuine that you believed in your mission and you had a long-term vision for it.” - Brian T. O’Neill (@rhythmspice) (02:08) “A research tool gives you the ability to create an input, which might be, ‘I want to see how Netflix is performing.’ And then it gives you a bunch of data. And it gives you good user experience that allows you to look for the answer to the question that’s in your head, but you need to start with a question. You need to know how to manipulate the tool. It requires a huge amount of experience and understanding of the data consumer in order to actually get the answer to the question. For me, that feels like a miss because I think the amount of people who need and can benefit from data, and the amount of people who know how to instrument the tools to get the answers from the data—well, I think there’s a huge disconnect in those numbers. And just like when I take my car to get service, I expected the car mechanic knows exactly what the hell is going on in there, right? Like, our obligation as a data provider should be to help people get closer to the answer. And I think we still have some room to go in order to get there.” - Jonathan Kay (@JonathanCKay) (04:54) “You need to present someone the what, the why, etc.—then the research component [of your data product] is valuable. And so it’s not that having a research tool isn’t valuable. It’s just, you can’t have the whole thing be that. You need to give them the what and the why first.” - Jonathan Kay (@JonathanCKay) (08:45) “You can't put equal resources into everything. Knowing the boundaries of your data product is impor